tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post7459830312792592157..comments2024-03-27T17:10:55.396-05:00Comments on Johnday's Blog: Pandemic Complexity MusingsJohn Dayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12123174297818737132noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-26604654439717567252020-08-19T11:02:56.880-05:002020-08-19T11:02:56.880-05:00More on this kind of stuff in today's post: &q...More on this kind of stuff in today's post: "Trump Pardons Jesus".<br />It makes me wonder if viral eradication can be achieved with a combination of ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine and zinc. Who will pay for a study?John Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12123174297818737132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-71248485491863812372020-08-19T08:10:45.220-05:002020-08-19T08:10:45.220-05:00I suspect that my wife and I have been exposed. Bu...I suspect that my wife and I have been exposed. But we've been beefing our immune systems since March/April. I suspect many "asymptomatic carriers" are those who were exposed but squashed the gigant megamolecules before they could get more than a toe in the door before it slammed on them.<br /><br />This of course raises the specter of those sleeper cells. NOw that my HHT is in remission owing to long terms benefits of breathing Portland's humid cool air (I almost never bleed these days), I am slowly making myself strong again. LOsing fat, gaining muscle, strengthening my joints, trying to get to where I can nurse wife and self should we gbecome genuinely ill.<br /><br />LIke this woman here, from our previous town of residence, mother of a friend of my wife:<br /><br />https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/aug/03/five-weeks-with-covid-19-a-spokane-womans-battle-t/<br /><br />"What followed was a five-week battle with COVID-19 that shook and tired Laursen to her core.<br /><br />Laursen developed nearly every known symptom of COVID-19 – coughing, fevers, chills, headaches, nausea, chest pain – and her illness lasted a remarkable period of time. Most people who people develop symptoms only have them for a week or two.<br /><br />In fact, health authorities would typically consider someone like Laursen to be recovered from the illness. COVID-19 patients who are not hospitalized are considered “recovered” 28 days after their first symptoms appear.<br /><br />Laursen experienced a suite of symptoms that lingered for a little more than five weeks, from mid-June to late July, putting her in a category of patients that some writers and scientists have dubbed the “long-haulers.”<br /><br />These patients don’t succumb to COVID-19 or quickly get over an infection. Instead, they suffer persistent, sometimes debilitating symptoms unlike any they’ve experienced before.<br /><br />Two medical providers diagnosed Laursen with COVID-19, but she isn’t counted in Spokane County’s tally of cases because she twice tested negative for the coronavirus. That’s not unheard of."Robin Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15098768488282086396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-12065897556469140502020-08-18T18:13:31.843-05:002020-08-18T18:13:31.843-05:00Good song. Billy Joel did a lot of good songs.Good song. Billy Joel did a lot of good songs.John Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12123174297818737132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-39371362472511492952020-08-18T18:11:48.882-05:002020-08-18T18:11:48.882-05:00Yep. We humans need to do our best to help each ot...Yep. We humans need to do our best to help each other, not wait for big deals for big business.<br />What is a cure? This virus may lay low and come back up later in some people.<br />https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/L20-0725John Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12123174297818737132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-19518988022633322372020-08-18T18:03:53.758-05:002020-08-18T18:03:53.758-05:00I certainly don't think hydroxy is a "cur...I certainly don't think hydroxy is a "cure", just way more effective than shredding lungs on a ventilator, or doing nothing (like you said), or requiring super expensive drugs that are also far from perfectly tested regarding covid.Robin Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15098768488282086396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-62194292676960680372020-08-18T18:02:11.318-05:002020-08-18T18:02:11.318-05:00ALso, the one study the article cited didn't e...ALso, the one study the article cited didn't even follow what I understand is the recommended protocol for using hydroxy for covid. It merely said that "hypothetically", doing so might be useful. I assume that was CYA recommended by their lawyers.Robin Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15098768488282086396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-85606221522475577892020-08-18T18:00:55.746-05:002020-08-18T18:00:55.746-05:00https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4gOIt-M02Ahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4gOIt-M02ARobin Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15098768488282086396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-15912286535340016602020-08-18T14:32:29.740-05:002020-08-18T14:32:29.740-05:00Yeah, I get tired when I'm dehydrated, and a b...Yeah, I get tired when I'm dehydrated, and a bit short-tempered, too.John Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12123174297818737132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-88109494359340551042020-08-18T14:30:40.055-05:002020-08-18T14:30:40.055-05:00JFK was sure not completely honest, but he had mor...JFK was sure not completely honest, but he had moral integrity, except for his libido, or so I have heard. Diogenes was a good guy, but he mainly wanted us to all think about what "he was looking for", didn't he?John Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12123174297818737132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-83510481571838910282020-08-18T14:27:58.244-05:002020-08-18T14:27:58.244-05:00Yeah assessment of risks, benefits and costs is ap...Yeah assessment of risks, benefits and costs is appropriate...<br />A cheap, safe thing being less than perfect ain't so bad, most days.John Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12123174297818737132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-55312411305886322522020-08-18T14:24:59.566-05:002020-08-18T14:24:59.566-05:00Hi Robin,
That article picks fault with the imperf...Hi Robin,<br />That article picks fault with the imperfect comparison of looking at population data on a national level, regarding use of hydroxychloroquine for COVID. That is a valid criticism, so let's just drown the baby in the bathwater, throw them both out, and start making a new baby to do the experiment properly.<br />The obvious error with the rationale is the relative cost of so many people being badly sick, and some of them dying... alone.<br />That's a really high cost of doing nothing. If the cost of doing nothing is apparently close to zero, then discounting it to zero, while you study it is ethical. However, if the treatment reaches a significant benefit, based on statistics, before the study is complete, it is UNETHICAL to not switch everybody over into the treatment group at that point.<br />To my assessment, we have seen enough data of fair to middling quality, multiple studies, and a few good ones without randomization and placebo controls, to declare, with high certainty, that failure to treat high risk and symptomatic patients is unethical. It's not all in one study, though, so nobody is technically responsible...John Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12123174297818737132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-2746286609253425332020-08-18T14:12:45.599-05:002020-08-18T14:12:45.599-05:00When we saw seropositivity results from California...When we saw seropositivity results from California and New York in April, we all realized that 10X as many people (or so) had been infected, as had been diagnosed by testing. Therefore, assuming all of the deaths were noticed, the 3% case fatality rate turned into a presumed 0.3% rate, since so many people were well enough to avoid being diagnosed, but everybody who died from it got diagnosed.John Dayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12123174297818737132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-14994091182953654582020-08-18T10:44:26.705-05:002020-08-18T10:44:26.705-05:00The article reference is this:
https://healthfe...The article reference is this:<br /><br /><br /> https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/flawed-study-incorrectly-claims-that-countries-adopting-hydroxychloroquine-as-a-treatment-for-covid-19-experienced-reduced-mortality-rates/<br />Robin Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15098768488282086396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-3704590065053321352020-08-18T10:43:47.551-05:002020-08-18T10:43:47.551-05:00It's like saying vitamin D doesn't cure co...It's like saying vitamin D doesn't cure covid (it doesn't) when all that is claimed is that vitamin is a major booster/maintainer of our natural immune systems, and a robust immune system DOES reduce viral contagion and symptoms. A robust immune system moves fast to target an invading p[athogen before it can get too far and do real damage. The difference between having the flu (which itself is AWFUL) and getting super-sick from the flu.<br /><br />This applies to the concept that covid acts somewhat like HIV, tricking our immune system and even turning it against us. THat refers to the immunity process not the initial kick-ass-of-foreign-objects process. (or so I understand it) If covid begins sticking its spike into cells that are sttrong and healthy themselves, and can hold off long enough for antibodies to surround the thing, it doesn't get the chance to replicate enough to overwhelm the immune system and then retrain it to be its personal minions.<br /><br />It's like nobody knows what they're talking about anymopre because nobody actually thinks for themself, even a great many of today's brightest Ph.D types. They're all hopelessly institutionalized, and even if they're morally upright, the ethics they are trained to respect aren't. If you do something because someone else tells you it's right, and don't examine it yourself with a completely open mind, your analysis has been corrupted by unsubstantiated input.<br /><br />THat's what happens to us from kindergarten and onward (and before, via TV and via p[arental ignorance).<br />Robin Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15098768488282086396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-78083960414500373302020-08-18T10:43:34.963-05:002020-08-18T10:43:34.963-05:00" It doesn't say a T%HING about whether o..." It doesn't say a T%HING about whether or not hydroxychloroquine itself saves lives.<br /><br />It then cites trials that show hydroxy doesn't work without referencing them."<br /><br />Sorry. The first sentence seems to contradict the second. The first refers to the lack of referential citations that actually support what hydroxy supporters claim.<br /><br />For example this is from one of the studies cited at the bottom:<br /><br />"Most clinical studies investigating therapies for COVID-19 have examined hospitalized patients with moderate to severe disease. The initial hydroxychloroquine studies were small and had methodological limitations, such as the absence of a control group (2, 3). Among large, nonrandomized, observational studies and clinical trials, emerging evidence suggests that antiviral therapy late in the course of COVID-19 may have, at best, minimal benefit (4–6). However, this therapy may have clinical benefits in the treatment of mild or moderate disease when given early in the disease course. To our knowledge, no randomized clinical trials to date have investigated agents for early COVID-19 in nonhospitalized patients.<br />We hypothesized that starting hydroxychloroquine therapy within the first few days of symptoms could alter the course of COVID-19 by reducing symptom severity and duration and preventing hospitalizations."<br /><br />The hypothesis of the last sentence is EXACTLY what hydroxy enthusiasts do. I know a doctor who has used hydroxy this way with his patients and had strikingly positive results. For the record, honest scientists increasingly admit that integrity in scientific studies is mostly disappeared. THe above is a good example.<br /><br />AN honest man is about as hard to find these days as ever there was. I feel like Diogenes walking around with a cellphone, using the screen-light in lieu of Diogenes lamp as he walked about using the light to "look for an honest man".<br />Robin Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15098768488282086396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-52579642035422793992020-08-18T10:43:18.866-05:002020-08-18T10:43:18.866-05:00Oops the email string, which refers to a link your...Oops the email string, which refers to a link your bots reject so I'll try and post it separately:<br /><br />Remember, most people will only read the headline. (This was on the sidebar of googlenews, which I use to gauge the daily propaganda shitfeed quantity/quality.)<br /><br />Please note that all the article actually reports is that the overall mortality rates of various countries in regards to acceptance/aproved use vs non-acceptance/disapproval of us were counted using sloppy statistical methods.<br /><br />It doesn't say a T%HING about whether or not hydroxychloroquine itself saves lives.<br /><br />It then cites trials that show hydroxy doesn't work without referencing them. I know of studies that show it does work, and the docs I know who actually treat patients and are willing to use it say, yes indeed, it majorly reduces symptoms/mortality when used properly.<br /><br />Plus, almost all this literature submits to the false dichotomy syndrome, a false either/or line of reasoning rather than a more of this/less than that line of reasoning, which is how most of reality works. Very few things in reality are truly on/off binary. Only things like subatomic particles behave that way, and even they go through a major wishy-washy state (quantum indeterminacy) as they do so.<br /><br />Please, do what JOhn Day recommends: major d vitamins (vitamin C is also wise), and look into getting some zing supplements also.<br /><br /><br />" In contrast, growing evidence from large randomized clinical trials suggests no beneficial effect of hydroxychloroquine in treating COVID-19 patients."<br /><br />BUllshit.<br />Robin Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15098768488282086396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-1195403891629899772020-08-18T10:39:14.611-05:002020-08-18T10:39:14.611-05:00I added: "P.S. OUr bodies run on water. HYDRA...I added: "P.S. OUr bodies run on water. HYDRATE religiously, reliably, regularly. Even the heawlthiest athlete who eats spinach and fruit and fish and no empty calories is temporarily weakened if his body doesn't have enough transport medium (H2O) to move troops/resources to the battle site. You should be peeing like a farm animal all day long. That said, doing so can flush out too many electrolytes, so using an electrlyte supplement once a day majorly helps.<br /><br />You'll FEEL much better, also, with or without covid in your system."Robin Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15098768488282086396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-14383827152408812172020-08-18T10:36:05.150-05:002020-08-18T10:36:05.150-05:00JOhn, if you have a few minutes to spare, o busy m...JOhn, if you have a few minutes to spare, o busy man, pls read this (a string of sequential emails sent to a small group of my friends) and make sure I'm not disinforming them?<br /><br />It would mean a lot to me, sir.Robin Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15098768488282086396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-34628801047889955982020-08-18T08:52:40.494-05:002020-08-18T08:52:40.494-05:00"I personally suspect that internet warfare, ..."I personally suspect that internet warfare, shutting down the web and grid and phones, can be used on top of viral pandemics to take out cities and regions. All of our eggs are getting transferred into that basket these days."<br /><br />THat's my take too, but they run into snags with doing so, because they depend on the net/grid too, and the kinds of sabotage that entails can easily spread like a virus. Not that hard to shut down a grid. A bunch of long metal pipes tossed onto the mega-transformers of a local power yard, for example.Robin Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15098768488282086396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4275885258914846834.post-44643676441959001562020-08-18T08:38:03.107-05:002020-08-18T08:38:03.107-05:00"3 per thousand people who catch novel corona..."3 per thousand people who catch novel coronavirus infection die, and mostly over 60. Older and sicker get hit harder. However, if you actually get diagnosed by a test, your chance of dying is more like 3 per 100."<br /><br />Did you perchance accidentally transpose 3 per 100 with 3 per 1000?<br /><br />I'm confused.Robin Morrisonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15098768488282086396noreply@blogger.com